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| Stew Mac fret slot blade. http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4239 |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:21 am ] |
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So as you may have seen on another thread, I got the Stew Mac fret slot blade for Christmas. Now I know that the blade is only 0.060" thick and I know that on the Stew Mac site they say that you don't need stiffeners for the blade, but I am wondering if anyone uses stiffeners if they are using this blade? |
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| Author: | John How [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:33 am ] |
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I would recommend using stiffeners. I have a pair that are about 5" and I was trying to remember where I got them. I thought it was highland hardware but a search of their site didn't show them. Cheap insurance against wobble though IMO. |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:02 am ] |
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I don't use stiffeners & haven't had a problem. The blade runs sweet & true. I found that the slots are too tight for standard fret wire. I now run the fingerboard through the the blade & back again before moving to the next position. This opens the slot up a tiny bit, but I still need to widen the slots more for a comfortable fit. This is with ebony boards... I haven't tried rosewood yet, but it may not be a problem in the softer woods. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Daniel M] I don't use stiffeners & haven't had a problem. The blade runs sweet & true. I found that the slots are too tight for standard fret wire. I now run the fingerboard through the the blade & back again before moving to the next position. This opens the slot up a tiny bit, but I still need to widen the slots more for a comfortable fit. This is with ebony boards... I haven't tried rosewood yet, but it may not be a problem in the softer woods. [/QUOTE] I have had the same problem with this blade. It is too narrow for the fret wire!! This creates a serious problem when it comes to hammering in the fretwire. Lately I have had to use a dental burr in a dremel tool to open up the slot even more. Another idea I had but haven't tried yet is to put a piece of masking tape on one side of the blade near the arbor hole. This will cause the blade to wobble slightly and create a bigger slot. This blade is just a circular saw blade for cutting plywood. It has been turned on a metal lathe to thin the outer edge where the teeth are. One of the things on my to do list this year is talk to Stew mac and see if they can get them with a kerf a hair bigger. It sure would make a good product great. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:07 am ] |
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DONT WOBBLE IT , You may have a serious problem as the thin blade may crack. As a machinist I can tell you that you may run a risk. I to have this blade. I am making a jig for it on the table saw and plan to open it so I can make my slots open and glue in. Pulling back on the blade can be dangerous also , if you have a backer fence that it can stay square it may not be too bad. Having had a blade grab and throw the board into my tummy I just don't like to take risks with power tools. Pain hurts. john hall |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:08 am ] |
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I agree Robbie. It is a PITA widening the slots. I use a .022" feeler guage which I made into a hook knife to widen the slots. There's always the danger of chip-out & it takes a fair amount of time. This is a great saw blade, but I think Stew Mac blew it badly on the kerf size. In their catalogue it plainly states that the blade will cut a .023" slot which is just right for their fret wire. At the price charged for this blade, I found it a bit disappointing. Hopefully, this was just one bad batch, & the newer blades are more accurately machined. John; Your are right so mention the potential hazards of back cutting. I use a heavy Baltic birch plywood sled with snug fitting dual runners, and find I have plenty of control on the back cut. This is not to say it's a good time to let your mind wander. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:20 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Daniel M] I agree Robbie. It is a PITA widening the slots. ESPECIALLY IF THE FRETBOARD IS BOUND! This is a great saw blade, but I think Stew Mac blew it badly on the kerf size. In their catalogue it plainly states that the blade will cut a .023" slot which is just right for their fret wire. At the price charged for this blade, I found it a bit disappointing. Hopefully, this was just one bad batch, & the newer blades are more accurately machined. [/QUOTE] I AGREE, HOPEFULLY WE CAN'T GET THEM TO MAKE AN "IMPROVEMENT" |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:23 am ] |
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I have a Freud dado blade set hat comes with several ssts of shims. Why couldn't you saw your slots, remove the blade and add a shim and then saw the slots again. The shim would offset the blade a few thou for the second pass. It seems like this would be a hassle but it should work. Could you take the blade to a saw sharpener and ask them to set the teeth a bit wider? |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:35 am ] |
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Tim, I think by running the fretboard forward and then pulling it back you should already be making a wider kerf. The second idea is a good one but dangit, I shouldn't have to do that! Is it too much to ask that a tool work for its intended purpose without having to alter it somehow? 
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| Author: | Brazilwood [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:16 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] Is it too much to ask that a tool work for its intended purpose without having to alter it somehow? [/QUOTE]
Robbie..you go boy ! There's nothing more frustrating to me. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:41 pm ] |
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So what does this blade mic out at? Has anyone let Stew-Mac know about it. I wanted to but one myself but one pass should work without all the hassel. I don't believe there is any set to this blade. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:16 pm ] |
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I am in the process of setting up my jig and you guys gave me very valueable info. There is a tool used to set the saw tooth. If you need to you can adjust the set of the teeth for the proper width. If a tooth isn't set the chip can't clear and if the set is strong to one side this causes some prolems but with this tool you can open the slot a touch. I will try ane let you know how this works. john hall |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:42 pm ] |
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So any saw owners willing to committ to call Stew Mac and see what they can do to remedy the situation? I'm not going to buy this blade until I know they produce the intended result. I also don't want to buy a more expensive hand saw/jig setup either. Rather spend money on something that works for me rather than the other way around. Till then....I have a couple of fingerboard blanks that need frets slots. Any volunteers? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:45 pm ] |
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Just call them. They are fantastic to work with. If the product has a problem I am SURE they will at least address it -- if not directly resolve it. You will not find a nicer group of folks.... |
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| Author: | Don A [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:06 pm ] |
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As an alternative, try MSC and search for jeweler saws. Here is an example. Bob Gleason at Pegasus Guitars recommends these and uses them for cutting kerf and fingerboards (.025 on rosewood boards, .028 for ebony and .057 for kerfing). All you need to do is pick up an arbor adaptor at the hardware store. |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:47 pm ] |
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I'll send them an e-mail & let you folks know how they respond. When I bought my blade, it took me a couple of months to get around to building the sled & trying the rig out, so I was well outside the 30 day return deadline... so I've been just living with the problem. In the meantime, I think I'll try a paper shim & do a second run. It's a bit of a pain, but if it works, it'l save a lot of bench time! I don't much like the idea of possibly side loading the thin edge of the blade, but it's worth a try. |
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| Author: | D.L.Huskey [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:19 pm ] |
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If when one was constructing their sled, wouldn't it be possible to make the index pin for the template slots just a little under sized. This would give just enough slack to move the board/template and widen the cut. Just a thought. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:00 pm ] |
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I'm not sure if the Stew Mac blade is hollow ground but 
HOLLOW GROUND BLADES The hollow ground blade is designed for specialized sawing. The teeth are not bent outward to form a set. The body of the blade is ground in on both sides to allow clearance and permit free running without binding. Since the teeth are not bent outward, they do not scratch the sides of the kerf. Therefore, the cut edge of the board looks as if it had been planed. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:25 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Don A] As an alternative, try MSC and search for jeweler saws. Here is an example. Bob Gleason at Pegasus Guitars recommends these and uses them for cutting kerf and fingerboards (.025 on rosewood boards, .028 for ebony and .057 for kerfing). All you need to do is pick up an arbor adaptor at the hardware store. [/QUOTE] EUREKA!!! Thanks Don!! I have been using this little blade since I lived in Brasil and didn't know where to get them here in the States. Everytime I go to Brasil I buy one but they are quite expensive there. I have a little table saw and it works great in that. I show this method using the jeweler's blade in my Steel String Guitar building DVD. In a regular table saw though the blade diameter is too small to raise high enough in the table so in my guitar building classes at the school I must use the Stew Mac blade. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:54 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Daniel M] This is a great saw blade, but I think Stew Mac blew it badly on the kerf size. In their catalogue it plainly states that the blade will cut a .023" slot which is just right for their fret wire. At the price charged for this blade, I found it a bit disappointing. Hopefully, this was just one bad batch, & the newer blades are more accurately machined.[/QUOTE] Well, if it's a bad batch, it must be a pretty big one. I used Brian Burn's jig with Stewmac blade to cut the fret slots on the fingerboard of my first guitar -- almost two years ago. I was suprised to find out that it cut a 0.020" slot. Brian had just bought the blade and was unaware of this. I have an LMI fret saw (0.023") and a Crown brand backsaw (0.025") kerf. According to what I've read, the slot should be about 0.008" wider than the fret tang. The LMI fretwire I use has a 0.019" tang, so this means the Crown backsaw is closer to having the ideal kerf than the LMI fret saw. Now that I have a decent table saw, I would like to get a good slot-cutting blade, but I'd sure prefer something around 0.025". I have a metal lathe -- maybe I should just try turning down a standard blade. Seems like there would be a fair amount of flex, though. I wonder if Stewmac's is ground rather than turned . . . Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:58 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] Just call them. They are fantastic to work with. If the product has a problem I am SURE they will at least address it -- if not directly resolve it. You will not find a nicer group of folks.... [/QUOTE] That's always been my experience since 1988. They've designed and redesigned things based on needs of repairmen and luthiers. Couldn't agree more |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:01 am ] |
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Although it won't help you all out right away I am in the process of assessing and then ordering a slitting blade that has a .025 kerf. I will be making my sled in the next week or two and will try it out. The one I have has a 1" arbor so I had to get a bushing machined but I think I can get these blades with a 5/8 arbor if I order enough. The entire blade is thin so blade stiffeners are required but they are actually fairly inexpensive and I will tack down a source for them as well. Shane |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 5:30 am ] |
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A couple of cautions. As someone said, don't make a "wobble" blade out of it. You'll warp the blade. Indexing such a thin blade over to make a slightly wider kerf won't work either. You'll likely deflect the blade sideways and will have no consistency of cut. Also, these blades have no tooth set, so trying to add tooth set to widen the kerf will change the tooth geometry and probably ruin the blade. I bought the LMI blade which works well, but absolutely must be used with stabilizers because the entire blade is the same .023" thickness. It winds up being over-priced because the blade is around $42 and each stiffener is $52. Yep, that's $146 for the setup. After I bought it I saw the StewMac blade and was kicking myself for not going that route, since it's $73 for the blade and supposedly no stiffeners are needed. Based on what I"m hearing here, I guess I made the right choice. Craig |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
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Craig; I gave the idea of shimming the blade & doing a second cut more thought last night & came to the same conclusion as you. It's definitely not a good idea. I fired off an e-mail to Stew-Mac last night, but I don't think we'll hear back from them 'till after New Year's. I included the URL, so they could read this discussion. I'll post their reply when I receive it. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:24 am ] |
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Thanks Daniel and definitely keep us udpated. |
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